Glory is glorious!!!! The glory of God is limitless, it doesn't stop or quit. It cannot be hindered. Yet how often do we say our goal in life is to glorify God (rightly so!!!) but our mind set is that we have not accomplished it yet, or have fallen short a bit. We fail to glorify God in our opinion but that stinks of a shadow crossing over His LIMITLESS glory... (insert much sarcasm and hinting language). Thus God needs me to fill up something that He is lacking!!!! (more voice inflection) Is not God fully limitless (redundancy department)? Thus He does not need me to accomplish His purpose (to glorify Himself)? Thus isn't everything that happens, every decision of man bringing glory to Him, with good or evil?
If you respond (and please respond, i mean how many parenthetical statements can one guy make in a post!) please avoid arguments of potential responses of man! In other words don't say this isn't true because people will then think they can go live or do such and such.
I am sure there is somebody that will call me out (some time i will write something i don't think is true just to get somebody to disagree, which is after all my purpose in this blog.)
Dive in the pool folks, get a little slimy!!!!
8 comments:
Sorry, I'm not going to call you out this time. Maybe someone else will join us and point the proverbial finger in our faces. I can't help but agree with you again.
It is truly humbling to know that God's glory is not enlarged, diminished, built, broken, magnified, or dimmed by anything that I could ever say or do, whether obedience or sin. His Self-existing, Self-sustaining, Self-glorifying Self sees to that.
Concerning humanity, in any given action, God is glorified. Either by His working in my life to the end that I obey, or by His just judgment against my sin (which, in fact, to His honour and glory was poured out upon Christ my Blessed Saviour and not on my hopeless, helpless, wretched, depraved soul!!!). As you said, "every decision of man" reveals His glory.
Now, of course, it is the blessed opportunity and purposed end of all those saved by God's magnificent grace to glorify Him by means of obedience rather than through judgment. It would seem, then, that rather than say our goal is to glorify God, we should say that our goal is to reveal God's glory through our obedience to Him. And, as you pointed out, we must always remember that God's glory is not something we accomplish, but something He does in entirety.
I hope it's okay that I haven't disagreed yet. I guess we're both drowning in ignorance together. But Praise Yahweh! All the glory of our drowning is His!
I agree partly...
Ok so God's glory can not be hindered by man. God's glory is complete. Yes, I agree. But when it comes to men glorifying God or showing the glory of God I think it has more to do with perception. When a person prays "God help me to glorify you in everything I do and say" they are asking that they wouldn't do anything that would diminish God's glory to others. Not that they wouldn't diminish God's glory in actuality but in perception. But maybe you are only speaking of the actuality and not the perception of others, in which case I agree completely.
Good point, Sara. I apologize for not being clearer. In practical outworking, "our goal is to REVEAL God's glory through our obedience to Him." I should have more adequately stressed that while God's glory is not changed, how we reveal His glory to others is important. Thanks for the clarifying!
Andrew!
‘Preciate the opportunity to get a little slimy.
“Thus isn't everything that happens, every decision of man bringing glory to Him, with good or evil?”
Yes and no. True, people will one day ascribe worth to God when they see His perfect and righteous justice in the condemnation of sinners. Will not every knee bow and say that truly, Jesus Christ is Lord? Yet, there is qualitative difference between that and the glory and praise received from a son.
Further, when I personally fail to trust Him and willfully disobey His commands, am I at the same time reflecting praise and honor to my Maker? Does this cause others to have a high view of Him? Sure, His grace will abound, and He will certainly not be mocked. But the honor that He receives when He disciplines me and yet gives me grace is not the same as when His children joyfully walk in truth.
Tim,
I think we are looking at this from two different points of view. Not that i think we necessarily agree either.
I believe that God will glorify Himself. That is what makes Him God. He takes supreme pleasure in Himself and being happy in Himself if He did not then He would be limited and reactionary and thus not God. The glory of God is not contingent on me. He doesn't need me to fill up something in His character. God is glorious for the purpose mainly of being glorious to Himself not to man. You seem to be coming from a man centered perspective of God's glory, and thus are defining glorifying God as our ascribing worth to Him. I am defining glorifying God and as God receiving His due from His actions (which cannot be thwarted or changed). Now i agree completely that man does not give God His worth, but that in no way diminishes the glory of God. It does not communicate it to others but every action of man is in the plan and order of God and thus is not out of His control and thus brings glory to Him.
I heard a illustration today by a radio preacher that when an atheist sits down and writes his anti beliefs about God that in so doing is affirming the existence of God, because man is created in the image of God. "the heavens declare the glory of God". God's creation always exalts God even if they deny His existence because they were made by Him.
So as i said it seems you are coming from the man side of glorifying God. Question for you: do you think that God needs man and his love or adoration to be God?
Hey Andrew,
Yes, I do agree that we are not coming at this topic from the same point of view.
In reference to God's character He is the unstoppable, all-powerful, unchangeable God who's glory and radiance is untouchable. He doesn't need man to fill up anything that He's lacking. On this, I feel that we agree.
I am however, a little puzzled as to your definition of glorifying God. Rather than saying one view is man centered and the other is God centered, it seems more accurate to say it's a matter of perspective. What you are describing is God glorifying God. What I was describing is man glorifying God. "Glory" is such a broad term that can be applied to radiance and splendor but also to honor and praise. (In the original post it seemed that those different aspects were used interchangeably.) I think the Bible teaches that man is to honor, praise, and exalt God (Rom. 15:6,9) and to live before Him in such a way so that others will glorify Him (Mat. 5:16). Glorifying God in this way does not impact God's actual splendor and glory (His character) but causes others to have a higher view of His great name.
And I do not think that my obedience or disobedience is outside of my control. Every action of man is truly under God's authority. Yet my responsibility is still to trust and obey Him.
Hope this helps to clarify what I was trying to say.
Tim,
Good stuff thanks for interchanging ideas and beliefs with me.
You are right about the different perspectives and not man or God centered.
I agree that my actions are not outside my control in that i do what i choose. What i am trying to say is that whether or not i choose to magnify God does not impact the fact that God is still glorifying Himself by the outworking of His plan.
I would venture to say that you would disagree with me that God has created every second of history. Which is maybe where our discussion should go.
In conclusion, God is always glorifying Himself in every second of history because He planned it. I am not saying by any means that every person is seeking to exalt and adore God!!!
What say you?
Sorry it’s been so long in getting back to you. It’s been a rather busy and eventful couple of months. Not sure if this discussion has ended, but I’ll give a quick response.
Would I disagree that God has created every second of history? Um….probably. God, the omniscient One who is the Beginning and the End, surely knows what did and will occur in every second of history. I don’t disagree that God is always receiving glory throughout history since creation sings His praises throughout each second of history. I think that God will receive the fullness of praise from history at its end when He wins, finally and completely.
To say that he’s created every second of history, every action of man, every movement of each atom—not sure I can go there. I don’t know if there’s enough biblical evidence to say that’s how God operates. One comes into difficulty right from the start if one says that God moved Adam to disobey Him in the Garden of Eden. I cannot give God the credit for Adam’s sin. I do not believe that God stands behind evil in the same way that He stands behind good. James gives God credit for what is good and perfect (James 1:17). I would see evil having a secondary cause to God, not a direct link back to the Creator (i.e. God does not create sin).
Thanks for the interchange.
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